Edward Ka-Spel
of
Legendary Pink Dots
Conducted by Michael Lund
and Kim Alexander
at The Lounge Ax, Chicago,
Illinois August, 1997

Original interview

          Kim and I drove down to theLounge Ax -- located on Lincoln Ave in the middle of Chicago's Yuppie-sportsbar-helldistrict, across the street from the old Biograph, where in a different age, Dillingerwas gunned down. We had not purchased tickets in advance, and had scheduled no interviewwith the Pink Dots. We found ourselves parked in Kim's van -- a block or two fromthe club -- eating an improvised lunch at about three in the afternoon, when suddenly arather large mobile home stopped in front of Lounge Ax, and began inching it's way into anone too large parking spot. We quickly swallowed the last bites of our meal, locked upthe van, and hurried down the street, concluding, (correctly as it turned out), that themobile-home harbored the Legendary Pink Dots.
          Nils Hornblower and Phil Silvermandisappeared through the entrance of the club with their instruments as we walked up tothem. Kim introduced herself to the tour manager -- Paul, a young guy from Montreal withreddish dreadlocks and a friendly way about him. Kim and I had not prepared an interview,and neither of us had a tape-recorder with us, but we asked Paul anyway if it would bepossible to interview Edward Ka-Spel, and his answer: "It shouldn't be a problem".
          We entered the cramped space ofthe Lounge Ax, and watched as the roadies and band members rapidly unloaded the PinkDots equipment. Everyone was busy and paid us very little attention, as we leanedourselves against the bar in anticipation of Edward's entrance to the club. The waitingwas short -- like a Holy Man drifting in from some desert -- Edward almost seemed tolevitate ever so slowly through the door and down the walkway. He wore an outfitreminiscent of the late 60s, had short black hair, and his eyes looked at us from behinddark sunglasses. "Hello" he said in his soft and unmistakable voice, and as if nothing inthe whole world concerned him, he stopped and conversed with us. Upon our request for aninterview, he immediately consented, and when we told him that we had to run home and geta tape-recorder first, he generously offered us to use his own -- it would "be better todo the interview right away", he said as a number of other people were scheduled to comeand talk with him.
          Still in need of a tape, I ranmore than walked down to the nearest Tower Records and purchased one, hurried back to theclub, and shortly found myself and Kim sitting on either side of Edward in one of thefaded old couches located opposite the bar in the Lounge Ax. Kim thanked Edward fortaking the time to talk with us, and from there we started our chat.

[after some discussion about who we are and why the interview... ]

Kim: Are you computer literate?

Edward: I am not so computer literate... ..just on a verybasic level.

Kim: Any access [to internet]?

Edward: We don't have access to the Internet... not yet. We'rethinking of getting on there... someone just gave us a computer, and...

Michael: You're a big letter-writer, right? I know people who havereceived hand-written letters from you...

Edward: Yeaah... I'm a bit slow... but...

Michael: They are beautiful letters... little works of art inthemselves... But anyway, since some of the people on Last Sigh may nothave heard Legendary Pink Dots music... could you describe, what you aretrying to achieve in your music... I know you can't really label it, because it is reallyunique and spans very wide... but, if you could give us a brief description of what youare trying to do...

Edward: I suppose in a way we are trying to create out own littleuniverse... you know, something that is constantly expanding, and sort of like will oneday... sort of like will draw a full circle, but when that day is, I have no idea...We've been going for sometime now... Uhmmm... you know, it sounds a bit grand...(chuckles)... but, maybe the most colorful psychedelic music ever made is what we'retrying [to create] -- I don't say we've succeeded -- but we're trying.

Michael: So, does that have any influence on the sort ofinstrumentation you use, because your CD's vary incredibly in sound and texture from oneto the other...

Edward: That's true...

Michael: ... although I admit that I have by no means heard all ofyour releases.

Edward: No... that's very true... Um... you know, often our CD's aredictated by the mood within the band at the time... now, we've just released a new CD,The Hallway Of The Gods , which is almost the antithesis of the CD before it,which has... you know, this one has quite a very large sound... lots of, you know, sortof like effects, and very peculiar sounds going on in there... its unpredictable whichway we turn... we are already busy with ideas for the CD following this, 'cause it'salways the case that once you've made something, it quickly becomes old... because, ofcourse, you finish recording it two months ago... and the band just moves onconstantly... it's something that never stays still.

Michael: We've often wondered--my friends and I--do you live in thestudio?

Edward: [Laughs]... No, no... I've got a private life, you know...girlfriend... Ahem... [Chuckles].

Michael: You're still in Amsterdam, right?

Edward: I'm in Nijmegen... in South Holland, Southeast Holland.

Michael: I read that you are of English origin...

Edward: I'm of English origin, yeah... two of us are...

Michael: What precipitated the move to Holland?

Edward: At the time it was a Dutch girlfriend, who had a biginfluence on me moving, [smiles]... Uhmmm... It was also the case that at that time,people didn't pay any attention much to Pink Dots in England and we decided...Ehh... you know, to sort of like go to the country that appreciated us the most at thetime... Ironically, it's changed now, England does quite well for us... and Holland is adisaster, [laughs]... but, Ahhh... .you know, it's just the way it goes, you tend to godown in one country and go up in another... at the moment it's America and Poland... wefound that we are Pop Stars in Poland... very strange, [laughs]

Michael: Hmmm... So, would you say that Holland has influenced thesound of your music?

Edward: Not really... Holland is quite a neutral sort ofcountry...

Michael: You would have been creating the same music, had you stayedin England?

Edward: I think so, Yeah...

Michael: What kind of influences do you have?

Edward: ... it's hard to talk about, you know,... I mean I thinkeverything you like... probably filters its way in there somehow, I mean... most music,really, myself and Phil Silverman listen to, a lot, was actually... [laughs]...Krautrock... . bands like Can and Faust... Ummm, and that's what kind ofstarted the desire to make music... but, you know, we didn't really attempt it until...the experiments of Throbbing Gristle in the late 70s... because, what they weredoing, they were showing that you didn't need a high degree of technical skill toactually create something that was very special... and, we had no technical skill in thebeginning of the 80s, you know... we just really wanted to create...

Michael: So... you had no musical training before starting Pinkdots, at all?

Edward: NO... no... no... someone taught me what an A was on thekeyboard, you know... and, it went from there...

Michael: I was thinking... some of the Pink Dots material, Ihave heard, has to my ear a strong literary influence... are you a big reader?

Edward: I don't get the time really... Ummm, I mean, there are a lotof authors, I really enjoy...

Michael: Could you tell me some of them?

Edward: Hermann Hesse is a favourite of mine... Keith Roberts...which is something so deeply English in a way, right... Ummm, Robert [Silbert ?]... manySci-fi writers, I suppose...

Michael: How about film... have you ever done music for film?..isthat an area you would like to get into?

Edward: I'd enjoy it... we haven't actually, specifically madeanything for film that has ever been released... Ummm, our music has been used for acouple of movies, but we were not told about it, we just found out about it afterwards,watching the TV.

Michael: That's sad...

Edward: [chuckles]

Michael: Because I think your music is extremely visual... that iswhat I really like about it...

Edward: I mean, it's a shame... I mean... we did have ideas of, like,trying to make, you know, sort of like videos... not clips... but something thatreally related to what we do... but, we were on Play It Again Sam Records, and theynever... haven't spent a cent on us... so it just never worked out, really.

Michael: Would you ever be interested in doing something, if someonewas willing to dedicate their time and effort, and do it on a semi-amateur basis?

Edward: We'd love to... really... our problem ismoney... we have no money, really... we're just too poor, [laughs]...

Michael: Yeah, money is always difficult in the creative fields...but, I believe in your attitude... I mean, just doing it. I am sure you couldn't imagineanything except music...

Edward: Nooo... No, it's been going too long now... wewouldn't know anything else, really.

Michael: Would it be indecent to ask your age?

Edward: Yes... [laughs]...

Michael: I remember two years ago, when I saw Pink Dots at theDome Room [Chicago]... you had some grey hairs?

Edward: And indeed it's black now isn't it? [laughs]

Michael: I have a question relating to a song you played at the DomeRoom. You had some lines in there saying something like: "It's a long way to Andromeda,but I know I'll meet you there someday."

Edward: Ohhhh... it's: "Sure we'll marry in the Spring."

Michael: I've been trying to find that. What CD is that from?

Edward: Chemical Playschool #8 & #9.

Michael: Ok... I'll get that. You understand, imported CD's areextremely expensive here, so...

Edward: Really? How much do they cost?

Michael: You know... they can run as high as $25.

Edward: Oh, that's crazy!

Michael: So, I've been lucky -- and I know that this doesn't benefityou at all -- but I have found a few of your things used, which, of course, makes me veryhappy.

Edward: Ohhh... I mean, why not? People hearing the music iswhat counts... we've got a great record company in America now [Soleilmoon Recordings],and we really like them.

Michael: The new things are not so expensive... but the olderreleases...

Edward: I know, it's to do with the fact... I mean, they should havebeen released in America... Uhmmm... You know, they were not or they were around for awhile, and then they disappeared. Now we are trying to get the all out in America. Idon't know how that will go 'cause... unfortunately, again we have to deal with Play ItAgain Sam, which, actually, was a terrible record company for us... we found out a bitlate...

Michael: It's always tough with the bigger labels.

Edward: Yeah... I prefer the smaller ones by far.

Michael: I live at one -- SkinGraft -- all their music is releasedindependently of larger labels, and in very limited quantities... their bands play hereat Lounge Ax from time to time, actually -- a lot of experimental noise music; they havea number of Japanese and local Chicago bands on their label...

Edward: Yeah, there's a lot of good stuff from Japan, yeah.

Michael: Zeni Geva has released on SkinGraft in thepast...

Edward: Yeah... yeah...

Michael: Melt Banana... Space Streakings.

[Kim offers Edward an Everlasting Gobstopper... ]

Edward: Oh please...

[A couple of Gobstoppers trickle out of the box into Edward's hand]

Kim: Help yourself. Pick a color. They change colors...[laughs]...

Michael: Ehhh...

Kim: I just wondered if you have ever had these? They are WillyWonka's.

Edward: Ehhh... No, no, this is a new one, [laughs]...

Kim: They are jawbreakers, but the middle collapses... kinda... maybelike the universe... I don't know... [laughs]... Who knows?...

Michael: That's very profound...

[laughs all around]

Michael: If you had to recommend one or two CDs from your catalogthat you would say someone should start with, if they didn't know your music already, andthey wanted to check out The Legendary Pink Dots...

Edward: To start with... well there's a good Best Of... it's agood introduction to the band... personal favourites, though ...kinda hard...

Michael: Four Days? If you could find it?

Edward: It wouldn't be Four Days I like Four Days, butit's very, very much a home-made CD that we had a lot of fun making...

Michael: It's beautiful... I found that one used... I was verylucky...

Edward: You're very lucky to find it used, Yeah... It's goneat the moment... maybe we'll repress it one of these days... you know... it's technicallygone.

Michael: Yeah... it says in the liner notes...

Edward: That's not strictly true... the liner notes... we ended uprepressing... there's 2300.

Michael: There are a lot of Skinny Puppy fans on LastSigh and we should ask you something about Tear Garden... What is the futureof the Tear Garden project?

Edward: Tear Garden's future has already begun,...[chuckles]... when Cevin came over to Europe just a few weeks ago, in fact... and we hada just one day session... and it was some of the greatest stuff we ever did... veryelectronic again this time... quite hard music that we produced from this session, but weare very excited about it... in some ways, I think it was the best session, we've had forsome years... Cevin took the tapes back with him to Vancouver, and we'll see, where itgoes from there... but you could say a new Tear Garden started from there.

Michael: Is there any chance, Tear Garden might tour in thefuture?

Edward: I mean, if it was possible to tour in an RV or something likethat, sure we'd do it... and, Cevin really likes to tour, and I'd like to do it,and, you know, why not, we are all friends, and, I'm sure it can work out one of thesedays, but, we just couldn't do it the way... that Skinny Puppy always did it...that is a bit out of our league.

Michael: Are you working with any other musicians on side projects...or considering anything like that?

Edward: I've been invited to a couple of projects, which would beinteresting... trip-hop actually, but, I'd like to put my own mark on it some way...ummm... I don't know, just thinking about that, you know... I'd want some say in whathappens.

Michael: Oh, definitely...

Edward: (chuckles)... uhm...

Michael: I'm always interested in knowing about the work process whenyou compose music. Who contributes what?... at what point do the lyrics enter into themusic, or, is it a matter of writing sound tracks for the lyrics sometimes?

Edward: It works both ways, sometimes there are lyrics there first...sometimes there are lyrics written for the piece... If we take Hallway Of TheGods... the new album... as an example... it began with Phil having a lot of musicalideas... I had a lot of musical ideas... Ryan had a lot of musical ideas... and somethings we also improvised... and, uhm... there's always too much material with thePink Dots, that's why there are so many releases, there's so much materialall the time.

Michael: And always a high level of quality, as far as I cantell...

Edward: We're very happy at the moment, because we like the newalbum... and we just today got the Chemical Playschool Vol. 10, which we'veall been waiting for... we're selling it on the tour, and later in the year, it goes inthe stores, but for the tour, it's only on sale at the shows, and I'm so totallyproud of this CD, and I'm hoping it's gonna really surprise people this one...

Michael: How long are you on tour, when are you heading back toEurope?

Edward: In about six weeks time from now... it's a thirty showtour... we just heard that the last show now is gonna be two shows in Denver, which isvery exciting for us... we are gonna do something special... there'll be a solo show frommyself, and then a different Pink Dots set from the night before... Denver isusually a good city for us, but, you know, we are gonna make it very special with thisoccasion... I think...

Michael: One thing thing I thought was very special, when I saw youlast time, was the story you did as an encore... and, I couldn't help wondering how muchof that was impromptu?

Edward: It was all improvised...

Michael: It was all improvised???

Edward: Yeah... it changed every night...

Michael: That was amazing... it was like 20 minutes long...

Edward: I think it was 20 minutes, (laughs)... No, it was a bit of achallenge, really... making the ends of the circle meet... uhm, a couple of years ago Iwanted to experiment with improvised lyrics... where I got the freedom to improvisewords, and take it somewhere at that time... you know... it's not only a great challenge,but it's absolutely satisfying...

Michael: I'm sure... it was great... and, I remember Nil'sHornblower going off into the audience and playing his saxophone...

Edward: Yup, he still does that now... (laughs)

Michael: Will he do that tonight, you think?

Edward: (chuckles)... He... it depends... (laughs)... I think it'sgonna be hard tonight... there's gonna be so many people...

Michael: Maybe he can get up on the bar...

Edward: (laughs)... I think he'll need a crane...

Michael: Yeah... It will be very packed in here... One more thing...the slide show you had for your last show was very powerful, and I was wondering to whatextent that was done by yourselves, and, how it was synchronized to the music?

Edward: Was that in Copenhagen?

Michael: No, this was at the Dome Room here in Chicago ... there wasthe image of a galaxy, and the silhouette of a man falling...

Edward: It wasn't our slideshow... it must have belonged to the DomeRoom...

Michael: Really!?

Edward: Yup...

Michael: 'Cause it was just amazing how it would fit the music attimes... like "Andromeda Suite"... it had that silhouette of the man falling superimposedon the image of the galaxy...

Edward: Ohhh... that's great... No, it's something we'd loveto do one of these days, to take our own lights production with us, but... we are notquit well off enough yet...

Michael: I'd love to work with you on that some day... or, have youcompose music for a film of mine, if I ever have the chance... who knows...

Edward: We'd be interested, that's for sure... we can alwayssupply music, that's never a problem...

Michael: That would be wonderful... I spoke briefly with Michael Giraof Swans about an idea I had--because his music has a lot of autobiographicalelements, and he is very interested in the idea of documenting moments in time throughhis music -- so, I thought it would be great to do a documentary in that vein, where itwould be aimed at preserving a moment in time -- which would be Gira's setting out on hisown solo career, he just disbanded Swans, you know...

Edward: Ohhhh, I know... it's kind of a shame...

Michael: He's a very genuine and kind person, if you ever have achance to meet him...

Edward: I'd like to meet Michael one of these days... I always likedhis music...

Michael: But I thought maybe something like that could be done, ifyou were to take one of the new Hi-8 cameras that are out -- that are really of highenough quality that you could shoot footage -- and then go into computer editing lab andcreate something on a very small scale that would still be good enough to present to anaudience...

Edward: That would be great, you know...Best is to keep in touch...and, you know -- as I said, we can always provide music... and, you know, for me it'sanother thing that we haven't really tried successfully... the only video we made was...(laughs)... a disaster... (laughs)...

Michael: Really... which song was that for?

Edward: [Siren]... uhm... it was really well meant... it was a friendof ours -- worked for the Austrian TV -- and, it cost virtually nothing to do... shot ina day, and things like that... but, the editing of the video just... I don't know... justdidn't work... not for me anyway...

Michael: It's always hard... you gotta understand... for someone elseto set images to your music... I think if anything, it should be a documentary typething, or something where someone supplied you with images, and you composed the music...that would be better...

Edward: Yeah... there wasn't enough fantasy in that video somehow,and there was too much of your cheap horror tricks...

Michael: Ah, that's too bad...

Edward: Which I think is a shame... but, there again, it hadto be made in a day, and we just kinda went along with the idea of the storyboard and...maybe we shouldn't have done that...

Michael: I don't really like videos much to be honest... not many ofthem are very good... . not many of them are very imaginative... .

Edward: No... that's very true...

Michael: I think there's a lot more interesting things that could bedone... I have done a little bit with with SkinGraft -- the record label I told you about-- it's fun... fun stuff...

Edward: There was a Tear Garden video, actually... just avideo clip -- "Sheila Like The Rodeo" -- which I thought was very good...

Michael: I'd like to see that... that's a good song, I can see howthat could translate into a nice video...

Edward: Yeah... that was very good...

Michael: My favourite is probably still the first one, though... Ireally like that album very much...

Edward: Tired Eyes Slowly Burning... I mean... it's still gotmy favourite Tear Garden track on it...

Michael: Which is that?

Edward: Ehh... "You and Me and Rainbows"...

Michael: Oh, really, that's the one where Ogre comes in and does acameo...

Edward: Yeah... Yeah...

Michael: Yeah... that's a fantastic song, an it is probably the mostLegendary Pink Dots sounding track on the album...

Edward: Yeah... that's true...

Michael: That's how I got introduced to Pink Dots, too... Ireally liked your vocals on that album... And, I thought your accent was Dutch...

Edward: Oh... no... no... [laughs]... that's London...

Michael: Your voice has a very distinct flavour that isn't like a lotof other English musicians... I just thought you were Dutch...

Edward: [laughs]

Michael: So how many years is it anyway?... fifteen, twentyyears...

Edward: What... for the Pink Dots?... seventeen, uh...although, that's right from striking the first note... the first CD was at the end of'82... we've not been around as long as some bands... Einsturzende Neubauten havebeen around actually five years longer than us... but, yeah, it's been a while...

Michael: I still see you as a part of that wave, though... withThrobbing Gristle and Cabaret Voltaire, which are great favourites ofmine...

Edward: In a way... the friends we made were groups like... NurseWith Wound... Current 93...

Michael: No kidding!

Edward: And... they are close friends still...

Michael: Their music is so different and exciting...

Edward: I love Nurse With Wound... they reallyare the best... [laughs]

Michael: I'd like to hear more of their music... I've only heard fiveor six of their releases... it's just amazing music...

Edward: You know... there's a lot of good things around actually...it's a good time for music... .there's a ton of bands out there...

Michael: Another favourite, you might liketoo--Tuxedomoon.

Edward: Yeah... yeah... And again old friends...

Michael: Oh, really...

Edward: Yeah...

Michael: I heard that the one guy is now leader of the Mexicanballet, or something like that...

Edward: Steven?... he is living in Mexico now... Yeah... and we methim two years ago... we went down his way...

Michael: Oh, yeah...

Edward: And... we actually played with him... one very privateshow... yeah, I've known Steven quite a few years...

Michael: I wish they'd still be doing music...

Edward: Yeah... but, Steven's new band is really good...

Michael: What is the name of it?

Edward: Ninerain...

Michael: Ok... I'll check that out.

Edward: And it really reminds me a lot of the old Tuxedomoon,actually... Yeah, they were a very special band, actually... Tuxedomoon...

Michael: Someone just gave me a tape yesterday, actually... with somehard to find tracks by Tuxedomoon, and, as a matter of fact, his music is going tobe released by Subrosa... he is a local artist doing synth-based music,and he is going to Austria in a couple weeks to play a gig at some festival with one ofhis bands... he's just starting out... but, anyway, he likes Tuxedomoon a lottoo...

Edward: Which band is it? Do you know?

Michael: He's got one called: Lilith, and the other is called:Orbitronik...

Edward: Oh... I don't know...

Michael: I guess Subrosa is waiting to release some of his musicright now, and World Domination is going to release another of hisCD's...

Edward: Oh... that's good... that's good...

Michael: He's getting out there... I think he'll make it, he's got alot of enthusiasm... all he wants to do is make music... he might not make a lot ofmoney, thought, but that is secondary...

Edward: yeah... it's not about making a lot of money, it'sjust about being able to do what you do, and not to have to... [laughs]... tremble whenthe rent is due to be paid... [laughs]... you know.

[The soundcheck begins in the background, partially drowning our conversation]

Michael: That's pretty much it, I guess... Thanks very muchEdward...

Edward: Oh... it was a pleasure Michael...

Michael: It was great meeting you... good luck with the show.

Kim: Thanks so much for coming on tour to Chicago, the USA.

Edward: Thank you... Ohh... I better give you your tape...[Click]

          Later in the evening, beforethe show started, Michael and I were fortunate to go upstairs to the dressing room wherethe Pink Dots were getting ready for the show. We chatted with them for anotherhour about their tour, their lives, their children and families and life in Holland. Ifound the entire entourage to have a wonderfully hospitable air about them, friendly andquite personable. Silverman told me how the Legendary Pink Dots decided theirname... a whimsical story indeed. Perhaps I will amend this interview with the story inthe near future... but for now, that's "quite all".

Kim Alexander/Editor     © This e-mail address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it